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| Join 10,000 Other Truth-Seekers by Downloading my new 'Funny Money' Bundle for Free at https://new.stevekeenfree.com Are you an engineer, finance, or IT professional? If you are, the 7-Week Rebel Economist Challenge is for you. If you qualify, I will work closely with you every week to install 50+ years of real economics into you, in only 7 weeks. Working closely with the 5 best applicants this week. Apply here: https://apply.stevekeenfree.com -- "And he actually writes, does this have significance in economics? And then he probably went home that night, and, like, that that that idea changed him. It changed him completely." Dive deep with Steve Keen as he explores Karl Marx's transformative insights on the labor theory of value and the dialectical tension between use value and exchange value. Discover how Marx's encounter with Hegel's philosophy reshaped his economic theories, integrating subjective and objective notions of value. Steve Keen unpacks these revolutionary ideas, challenging conventional economic thought and revealing their profound significance in understanding modern economic systems. Join us for a thought-provoking journey through the evolution of Marx's ideas and their lasting impact on economic theory. -- Who is Dr. Steve Keen? Dr. Steve Keen is an influential economist who has dedicated over 50 years to challenging mainstream economic theories. Since his days as a university student, he has been engaged in a David vs. Goliath battle against conventional economic models. Holding a Ph.D. in economics, Dr. Keen is well-known for his critical analysis and advocacy for more realistic economic approaches. His work emphasizes the importance of accounting for financial instability and incorporates elements of complex systems theory. Engineers, finance professionals, and IT experts will appreciate his methodical breakdown of economic phenomena and his development of the Minsky software, which models financial crises. Dr. Keen's contributions are crucial for anyone seeking a deeper understanding of how economic systems can impact technological and financial environments. His teachings offer valuable insights into the economic forces shaping our world. By following his analysis, professionals can gain a better grasp of economic dynamics that influence their fields. |
Dear Prof Keen, I have a question:
Is it not the case that since Capitalism measures progress in terms of growth and thus legally requires CEOs to provide shareholders with higher and higher profits year over year, quarter over quarter, that regardless of advances in machinery, workers will over time see a net diminution in their quality of life as a result of 1) predatory practices during the 'busts' in boom-bust cycles; 2) rent-seeking financialization leading to de-industrialization; and 3) private sector corruption and cannibalization of public sector services/natural monopolies?
Regardless of whether or not profits decline, (which I mention b/c profits appear to be increasing exponentially for the top 0.01%) would not a prolonged period of diminution in the quality of life of workers, sacrificed for the sake of ballooning private profits, also result in conditions for revolution when a majority of workers wind up face to face with 'three skipped meals'?
Thanks for your time.
The Emiseration Thesis?
@@mattgilbert7347 Yes, that's what I'm trying to speak to.
From what I can tell in the video, Prof Keen appears to be making an argument that the tendency for the rate of profit to decline is undermined by Marx's underestimation of the role of machinery. I agree with this.
My question is, but isn't the emiseration thesis still valid for all these other reasons vis a vis revolution?
He's Marxy Marx to me.
Keen meant "Phenomenology of Spirit" or "Elements of the Philosophy of Right".
Possibly the latter as Marx wrote a critique on Hegel's Philosophy of Right.
Current crisis of capitalism proves that Marx is right.
If Marx was wrong capitalists would not transfer the production facilities into the countries with cheap labor instead of introducing industrial robots.
Prof Keen, you are one of the best economists ever. Such a good video.
Video editors, please stop re-using your hooks. Once you use them, they're done. I feel like I'm watching a Christopher Nolan movie
Wow. Another Liberal who doesn't understand Marx.
Colour me shocked.
You are wrong about machinery
Marx never said that
You failed! Title should be "The very thing Steve Keen got wrong".
So interesting. Thank you sir. -Muslim man from Kansas, USA.
It gets pretty complex to me in the last 7 or so minutes and I would need to study these sentences more in-depth for me to have a better more complete understanding.
What would or will be the thing that will lead to socialism?…now that is a question that at this time is a lot easier to theorize about than the complexity of trying to theorize or conceptualize (a theory) about a full faultless and complete understanding of economics especially when you throw banking and what constitutes money into the mix and also then with governments and the modern nation-states and the geopolitics and finite resurces plus biology or "science" which included within that would be energy which included within that would be photosynthesis and the biological and ecological, the whole earth system (which includes of course, factors and parts coming from outside the earth system but those are pretty easily accounted for). Time as well because energy relates to time, as living things use energy and things generally decay or go into more disorder.
What is really crazy about neoclassical or any type of economics which doesn't take into account the biological in my opinion is really doing humanity a disservice and is actually in fact, delusional kind of thinking; as Allah, Glorious and Exalted, says about some people, deniers of truth, in the Quran. How people delude themselves…Allah is the provider and the sustainer, ultimately…
What can go wrong for humanity is all these things which are failing, or fleeting, thus false and leading to ruin thus bound to fail. A consumeristic society is bound to fail because eventually the resources will become scarce or be depleted.
If you consider history such as like the past 4000 or so years that while I think looking (more) exclusively only at the material side of things is, while trying to look at and understand a specific subject such as economics can be very useful and in fact valid but it also can be or could be limiting of course as well.
Considering the past 4000 years or so, empires/"nations" and the relationship with resources, which is of course tied to people and land, and even the geopolitics of today, I believe there is good and bad. Right and wrong. Evil and benevolency. People have free will and a choice to do good or to do bad.
Religion is a big factor that has played a role in history and that is something that is not strictly materialist for example. Culture, tradition. Morality. Is not something strictly circumstantial or fleeting or what have you.
I dont think people are just strictly materialistic in their motivations and beliefs but some could be, sure, some very cold hearted certainly!
I do wonder whether philosophers must hit the jackpot all the way- If capitalism goald is prosperity for all by tenure of production means and so on, something has not been working till now….capitalist nations live by looting underdeveloped territories.
Karl Marx was a brilliant economist but he got plenty of things wrong. For example his theory of classes and class identity is full of holes. It is nothing close to a complete theory of social organization or even of social hierarchy.
Also he does not consider any of the other human experiences outside of European industrialism and imperialism. He doesn't realize other cultures and civilizations organize and rationalize very differently than Europeans.
What is not seen by proponents of capitalism and critics of Marx is that his doctrine has not yet come to fruition. Capitalism took three hundred years with the help of the industrial revolution to get where it is today. System changes don’t happen overnight. Experiments in Communism have failed because of constant attacks from capitalism. It is easy to find fault with Marx, but must critics have never read or understood what he say. Russia has had sanctions against it for almost 100 years. China is under sanctions and threats of military action, with 100% tariffs on Chinese EVs
Everything.
What is not seen by proponents of capitalism and critics of Marx is that his doctrine has not yet come to fruition. Capitalism took three hundred years with the help of the industrial revolution to get where it is today. System changes don’t happen overnight. Experiments in Communism have failed because of constant attacks from capitalism. It is easy to find fault with Marx, but must critics have never read or understood what he say. Russia has had sanctions against it for almost 100 years. China is under sanctions and threats of military action, with 100% tariffs on Chinese EVs
Every privatised industry has failed except in one aspect and that is the ability to make money for its owner. An example? Before water was privatised in Britain it was well organised, there were no shortages it was clean and maintained. Today it’s privatised and there is sewerage in the Thames, there’s shortages because the pipes are not maintained, through the sacking of workers. Of course the owners would say it’s successful because through these staff reductions etc they have become rich. These privatised industries become rich because of cuts to services, staff etc. the railways in Britain are appallingly inefficient under private ownership, yet we are told Privatisation is more efficient. When they were state owned they ran like clockwork. When I worked in the NHS the wards were spotless there were two cleaners to each ward at my hospital. Then the cleaning services were privatised. The cleaners were sacked and invited to apply for their jobs at less money. Now there is one cleaner to two wards and the hospitals are dirty
Decent interview…this vid picks it up in the middle.
It started off slowly with Keen saying what a towering influence Marx is. At that point Fridman acts discouragingly dense. He loosened up here and, asked some good questions, and allowed Keen to teach us something. I can never hear enough or too many perspectives on Marx from experts because I don't have the attention span to read his texts.
15:11 You are making a nonsensical argument here.
The machines do not "create" value.
The value is created when labor uses those machines.
Consider 2 identical cars. One is used as a taxi while the other is used as a personal vehicle.
Is the taxi more valuable because of how it is being used?
Is the taxi "creating" value while an identical car isn't?
That is complete nonsense!
LABOR is creating value by using one car as a taxi.
The cars are a commodity. So are the machines that were used to manufacture those cars.
Machines cannot directly add value to a business because they still require labor to operate.
Without labor, all machinery will simply sit idle and rust.
It is important to understand that no political ideology,
is ever constructed as a journey for those under its dictates,
to reach a prosperous and enriching future.
It is always a system of authoritarian control by the few over the many.
It is always inert and filled with dogmatic tracts against the other regimes.
For it is only the framework of the ideology that allows them to rule over you.
Usually by making the present 'permanently' stagnant.
If a society has no vision, or future plans laid out for it.
No new political ideas, no giant infrastructure plans,
no affordable housing schemes, or healthcare and jobs for all…
This is how you know it's a prison and not a journey to a more efficacious life.
Some use force or coercion, others through your own greed.
Those that want socialism or a religion as a system of control.
are righteously offended by the greed aspect.
But it is only the flavour of control that disgusts them.
They're still very content to be controlled by the few in their own choice of prison.
Whether a religion, Capitalism or Marxism. They're all exactly the same.
Systems of control. That you prefer one over the others… only means,
that control system for you… is working.
Then you're weaponised to defend their system. To keep them in power.
Because the more sophisticated a control system is, the more the 'king' is invisible.
Oligarchy never went away, it only transforms its structure to the silhouette of the times.
The embodiment of success, is for 'you' to fully accept their control system,
that surrounds you …and despise any opposing regimes control ideology.
This is when the regime can feel less anxiety about keeping,
maximum control over you. They can relax their governance.
These are the control systems most people acquiesce happily with.
But it is only a temporary balancing act. The more push back,
the harsher your control system will become for you.
All of these control systems are currently baked-in… they're going nowhere.
The people in charge like their world exactly as it is… stagnant.
Only full scale war can change this rigid political landscape.
For obvious reasons… a political method doesn't exist.
Marx's
Theory of Value is wrong.
Theory of Exchange is wrong.
Theory of Historical Determinism is wrong.
Theory of Interest is wrong.
Theory of Savings is wrong.
Theory of Business Cycles is wrong.
Theory of Monopoly is wrong.
Theory of competition is wrong.
Theory of incentives is wrong.
Theory of human nature is wrong,
Theory of Exploitation is wrong (In fact exploitation happens most under collectivist systems.)
Theory of Alienation is wrong. (In fact Alienation happens most under collectivist systems.)
And economists such as Mises, Bawerk and Hayek knew these wrongs 100 years ago. Time that Professor Keen should also learn! 🙂